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b24 vs b17

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The British were also given B-24s to try out, and while the results from the U.S. viewpoint were less than hoped for, the RAF did prefer the B-24 Liberator over the B-17 Flying Fortress because of its heavier payload capabilities. It was stated by the leading air war theorists in the world - Lord Trenchard in Britain and Gen. Giulio Douhet of Italy - and believed "the reason its after the B-17 is becuase it was developed after it." It also had a square access hatch in the bottom so he could take pictures right through it of planes and scenes below. The casualties suffered by the Eighth Air Force were about half of the U.S. Army Air Force's casualties (47,483 out of 115,332), including more than 26,000 dead. This is more common with conceptual, experimental, and x-plane designs. The B-24 struggled to fly combat at 23,000 feet whereas the B-17 easily flew the same mission at 30,000 feet. Competing against Douglas and Martin for a contract to build 200 bombers, the Boeing entry (prototype Model 299/XB-17) outperformed both competitors and exceeded the air corps' performance specifications. due to many fortuitous happenings for the Boeing aircraft: When you consider that almost EVERY Hollywood movie ever has the B-17 as the star (one exception is “Sole Survivor” with Richard Basehart based upon the “Lady Be Good” B-24 discovered in Libya in 1956) the Flying Fortress is the most well known World War II bomber to the worldwide public. When Fink asked what the new bomber looked like, he was told that this was to be a completely new project and the design hadn't even reached the basic drawing stage. - and at the end of the supply chain - they naturally choose England. The H.G. Written by . I'm not sure which one can tank more hits because the damage modules are... strange. He was then given a quick description of the new bomber - he would use the Model 31's Davis wing, its twin tail, four engine nacelles from the PBY Catalina and he would design a new fuselage with two bomb bays, each as large as the bomb bay of the B-17. glass is flat - no distortion = better photos! The Stirling made a pretty good glider tug. personnel in Africa. Why the RAF Preferred the Liberator over the Flying Fortress. the Consolidated B-24 Liberator? As far as stats go, the B-17G seems to be superior to the B-24 in most every way and there is no difference in the payload, yet the B-24 comes after the B-17 series. wings. The B-24 design is very war functional. The power of the engines available dictated this thick wing design. For heavy weight hauling the British Avro Lancaster would take some beating. Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear. extreme distance was necessitated by the oceans around the USA. Since these men were flying at night other causes that likely contributed to their high loss rate could be that the crew never even knew the plane was going down – with no visual reference point to see what the plane is doing - diving or climbing, or even in a slow spin - most of them likely stayed at their station waiting for the bailout signal that never came. fighters could be around from enemy carriers and the original 11 .50 More B24's were built iirc and they were also more flexible in capabilities as they fulfilled more roles. Which is better? The teething problems were well known and so the press people flying wanted to fly on an aircraft that had less operational problems – so most went on B-17s. - beer, women, high level command ranks to talk with, and easy access to the It was the first well known bomber in The location of the future 15th Air Force combat operations, Afrika, also was not very good - the press corps did not like the primitive conditions. Generally this is how the trees work but there are exceptions - F7F after the F8F, for instance. Not Until the August 1, 1943 "Tidalwave" B-17G has more guns and is more survivable but is slower and climbs worse then the B-24. Having a thinner smaller wing meant that 20 and 30 mm cannon shells hitting it would not only cause problems on the side it hit but the shells would also cause about the same amount of damage to the opposite side. This is more common with conceptual, experimental, and x-plane designs. to one army combat photographer from the 15th AF and he transferred of only seeing their bit of the world - they were not allowed to roam .30 caliber machine guns that fighters had on them Veterans of WWII air campaigns in Europe and the Pacific have long debated the merits of these aircraft.Here's What You Need to Know: The Liberator … Not until mid 1943 did enough B-24s The B-24 Liberator is treated the same way. take a 1 1/2 tonne load over 400 miles to a target and return. press! of weight on what horsepower available - and that mean a thick wing save. The B-17 design team then had to use a wing that would lift a LOT 12 comments. Because it came after the B-17 was developed nothing more nothing else. of war in China and Europe likely, looked at the bomb load, the distance thinner material when you do to achieve the same stress goals. 100 B-24s fly and they lose 3 a/c so there is a 3% loss rate - 50 B-17s fly and they lose 3 then it is 6% loss rate. The power of the engines available dictated this thick wing design. a less strong wing. Aft of the bomb bay the B24 had more room, although the staggered waist gun stations in the B17 was an improvement. The B24 is a higher tier bomber which means it gets into higher tier games and it also seems its elevators get shot out very easily. conclusion. The problem with being bigger is, of course, you are easier to hit and thus more shells could actually hit a B-24 than a B-17 in the same amount of firing time of a Luftwaffe pilot. The B-17 is full of them. I assume maybe it's for grinding the B-29 but I used the B-17 for that just fine and that wouldn't explain its position on the tree. This. Boeing company came up with a design - using 1932 technology - to Know which one I'd rather be in. could not get to the same altitude as a B-17. It had a longer range and greater payload. B17G vs. B24 (AB) AB Air. A B-24 flew faster, farther, longer with a 3 ton larger load than the B-17s ever could (and if a B-17 tried to fly as far as a B-24 then they lost 1/2 their bomb bay for the extra bomb bay fuel tank). One is that the B-24 could fly higher - not true at all. Moderators:hokiepastor, Solomiranthius. B17G vs. B24 (AB) AB Air. Now if a press person had a choice of going to England The B-24 Liberator and the B-17 were both 4-engine long range bombers, capable of delivering huge amount of ordnance whereas the B-25 was a medium bomber with many more strategic capabilities, but … They just looked better in a photograph. Turn time: 39.0 - 41.1 B17 better. Wells movie "Things to Come" is centered around this premise. is heavier and the plane has to fly faster to achieve takeoff speed Your selected aircraft are compared in side-by-side arrangement below. Other other locations where aircraft oriented people gather and talk about philosophies. come at a price. Each plane is different - but As a percentage by mission there is almost no difference in the loss rate between B-24s and B-17s in the same timeframe. 155 MPH indicated at 21,000’ at 55 below equals a true airspeed of 205 MPH over the ground. This was of no concern since they would be flying from the The Truly touching moments of humanity, ethics and morals are rather rare in warfare. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. what you do the photo almost always works. The press corps in England also got off to a bad start with B-24s. The B-17 was more iconic, however. i do now combate im in a p36 the turn rait is very good. the reason its after the B-17 is becuase it was developed after it. Andy Rooney related this as did Walter Cronkite who went on the same mission that the only one of the seven war correspondents that went on that bombing mission who did not come back was in a B-24. South Pacific. All had the same purpose - shoot wanted so many so that they were easier to censor the storeis. The design team choose a wing - the 'Davis' wing - that is thinner It sits on high tricycle landing gear arrangement so the photographer vs . I have found the b24 is more tanky and can has a larger arch where 3 turrets can shoot simultaneously. the Liberator creates an altitude design limit by using the efficient wing I talked part is more weight. The losses were extrodinary. As to bomb load, the British De Havilland Mosquito Light Bomber could carry a heavier bomb load further and faster than the B17 and B24 (long range). The Consolidated B-24 Liberator landing at Aurora, Oregon in 2004 Get an answer for 'Compare and contrast the B-17 and B-29 bombers during World War II as far as their effectiveness and protection.' You had only two: one in front for 6 men to exit from, and 1 in the rear for the tail gunner. You can always go back and Compare any two aircraft in our database. The airpower proponents also expected that they could target industries and cripple the enemies war effort though precision strikes on key targets (enemy aircraft plants, rail (transportation), electric, fuel, some key industries– think Schweinfurt -- and general war production factories) enough to disrupt the whole economy that it would make them unable to wage war. The US Army after getting a look at the B-17, and with the chances No, it was used extensively in Europe - more B-24's were built, in fact, than B-17's IIRC. out of flying in B-17s into B-24s due to the boxiness of the B-24: he could not by all - that the heavy bomber would be always get through and be able to destroy the theory of air victory, had asked the aviation industry for a plane that could carry even caliber guns would easily defend off a plane attacking with just four "The Memphis Belle" propaganda movie made in 1943 had only B-17s The thinner wing by 1930 design standards means The B-17 wing is a pre-war era design and is THICK for heavy lift efficiency. And for our British friends, yes I recognize the value of the Lancaster and the Halifax bombers. Max Speed: 294 - 288 B17 better. Archived. Based on their reports, the press did not like Africa much. when it was It also meant that a few shells in the smaller wing cross section would cause the wing to fail faster than the much longer chord, and thicker, B-17 wing. Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress . Other areas of the plane – being bigger and with twin rudders – meant that the B-24 could take some hits and not be affected – pretty much like the B-17. the enemy factories, cities - people - and bring any war to a quick it has a real thin wing that edge-on it disappears (does not give depth Early versions proved to be more vulnerable to fighter attack than anticipated, but, by the time the B-17E version began to go into service shortly before the United States entered the war in 1941, the plane was equipped with turrets in the upper fuselage, belly, and tail. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One. As far as stats go, the B-17G seems to be superior to the B-24 in most every way and there is no difference in the payload, yet the B-24 comes after the B-17 series. Completely different planes designed for same purpose but with different design philosophies. were being built to fly out and sink enemy ships before they could B-17s flew at 155 indicated in formation while B-24s flew at 165 indicated. Press J to jump to the feed. The bigger the plane the heavier it is and to save When separated into B-17 and B-24 crews, 92 percent of the surveyed B-17 crews said they had the best type of machine, compared with 76 percent of the polled B-24 … needs to get up 10 feet or so to get a good view (not always possible), Close. The B-17 also was designed during an era when air racing and aircraft Heavy bombers are less numerous in number of designs created in Germany, Russia, France, England and the USA - but all show The movie “12 O’Clock High” (based upon Col Armstrong’s management style when he took over the 306th on 4 Jan 1943, with the actual history almost written verbatim as it occurred into the movie during the inspection by General Eaker) and the TV show of the same name, add in the “Memphis Belle”1943 movie, and the 1992 movie version publicity has made the 12,726 Boeing B-17s were produced (6,981 By Boeing itself, 5,745 by VEGA & Douglas) and are much more well known than the 18,188 B-24s that were produced. considering all the Hollywood movies ever made about the air combat Armament Presets: 6 - 4 B17 better In-game the B-24 is weaker than its real life counterpart. wanted: a long range heavy load bomber. when compared to the B-17 but generates more lift. Military politics ensured that December 28, 1939 was the first flight for the B-24 prototype. All were influenced by the ideas of the 1920s and early 30s that the “Bomber would get through” on its own without escort due to massed defensive firepower carried by them. This functionality does diversions due to 'teething problems' that all planes go through). The B-24 in real life was an improvement of the B-17. edged wing provides but just by their function they also LOOK GOOD. This is one of the normal problems when looking at percentages reported based on the numbers of aircraft engaged. http://www.taphilo.com/Photo/Pictures/b17/B17-B24-comparison.shtml. The B17 tended to be warmer forward of the bomb bay as long as the heating system was properly maintained. It was also a better bomber for the role. The Christmas Truce of WWI was an excellent example of such humanity, as were the heroic actions of German Luftwaffe fighter pilot Franz Stigler on December 20 th, 1943.His actions got nine men home for Christmas. men fighting, or going to a dusty desert where there is none of that They tried it in 1943 and it was just too difficult. It gives what the pre-war plannerswanted: a long range heavy load bomber. The Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress is a four-engined heavy bomber developed in the 1930s for the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC). So the B-24s are flying 15 MPH faster than a B-17 at the same altitude. So the B-24s are flying 15 MPH faster than a B-17 at the same altitude. 5. One person in the passageway behind the radio operator blocking it, or damage / fire there, and no one got out. This is due to the way the two emergency exits from the a/c were laid out. that generates a LOT of lift - but the top speed is sacrificed for The first prototype bomber flew in mid-1935, and the B-17 entered small-scale production in 1937. The B-24 presents a problem get to the UK to fly missions (and the first dozen or so flown were Different planes can be designed for same purpose but with different However, the plane plane during the 1930 (and private planes too) was they all had rounded 55,000 bomber command crew members were killed during the war - and often the whole crew would die in a Lancaster. A valid comparison of the B-17 and B-24 is Share. However, the narrower waist of the B17 gave the crew less room to stand and move about. This is why after initial try at flying in mixed formations they stopped it. B-24 carried a bigger bomb load, was a tad faster and had more range. In the final analysis, there is no real way to determine if either the B-24 or the B-17 was truly superior. The B24 was the most produced heavy bomber in history. The human mind likes curves. This functionality doescome at a price. There are many myths surrounding the capabilities of these two aircraft. The only deep offensive method to hit Germany was with the4 heavy The B-26 Marauder had the lowest loss rate in the ETO - but then they SELDOM went more than 120 miles behind the front line and thus were almost never intercepted. press. The Fortress is to the Spitfire like the Liberator is to the Hurricane. Source: 398th BG newsletter During World War II, one in three airmen survived the air battle over Europe. Bombload, wing spawn and obviously the shape which make the B-24 a bigger target to hit. Rate of climb: 1.8 - 2.3 B24 better. The B-17 Flying Fortress designed by Boeing or However, the Davis wing on I don't usually fly either so I don't have much first hand knowledge. in it. you have to work harder to get better pictures. One time they were jumped by an organized Gruppe of Fw-190s (around 40 FWs) and they lost 26 out of 36 a/c - in 20 minutes. Both the B-17 and the B-24 came out of an early 1930s philosophy that long-range bombers could be used to defend the continental United States against a foreign enemy by … goal was to tell a story using one photo. The war correspondent's It did not help that the first few times that a non-military War Correspondent flew in a B-24 Group to targets which were also being visited by B-17s the B-24 they were in was shot down and they were killed or captured. The bigger the plane the heavier it is and to saveweight you design to just the specs - and no extra parts since everypart is more weight. The two U.S. heavy bombers of World War II that flew in the 8th, 11th, 5th, 15th Air Forces were designed years apart, using different aeronautical ideas, because of competition to get military contracts. Quoting Xv408 : Just to be contentious, there was a certain other … that generates a LOT of lift - but the top speed is sacrificed for 0.5% Overall losses of B24/B17 c. 3% (and the Lancaster, Halifax etc). The Consolidated B-24 Liberator is an American heavy bomber, designed by Consolidated Aircraft of San Diego, California.It was known within the company as the Model 32, and some initial production aircraft were laid down as export models designated as various LB-30s, in the Land Bomber design category. This question often comes up at meetings, discussion boards, and that doens't mean the plane is always better or at a higher BR (look at early BF-109s) as for advantage. Most of their stories ended You can always go back and Compare any two aircraft in our database. There were more Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain and they shot down a higher percentage of Germans that their ratio would suggest than the Spitfires - but he Spits got all the press! during the Second World war the B-17 is the most well known. When you look at overall total sorties then the loss rate for B-24s are lower than the B-17. The B-24 design is very war functional. hide. TheB-17 being a thicker wing needed more - str… The most effective bomber of the war actually would be the Avro Lancaster - but I sure would not want to fly in them. Takeoff run: 600m - 820m B17 better. The B-25 and the B-17 really aren't comparable. down the enemy planes. There is less need to cross-brace and you needthinner material when you do to achieve the same stress goals. (They had alarm bells and lights to signal the crew.). The B-17 Flying Fortress and B-24 Liberator both accomplished these same takes in the same manner at the same level of efficiency. Part of this was the handling characteristics that an round This often meant the B-24s could take off later, fly the same distance to bomb a target, and were already on the ground before the 17s ever got back to the English shore. painted in the colors of a 5th Air Force B-24 that flew in the This ties into the the private / public nature of the press. history, tactics, and flying characteristics of planes. It gives what the pre-war planners bomber and that mean the B-17. permitted uses of photos on the copyright and disclosure statement. Jack the sound barrier. 10 MPH does not seem like much of a difference but at ALTITDUE that 10 MPH can translate into an extra 10 to 30 MPH TRUE airspeed difference - thus they get there faster and are subject to less time over the enemy territory - making them safer. B24 vs B17. Share with: Link: Copy link. The B17 has more guns but the B24 is faster and has a cheaper repair. There is less need to cross-brace and you need that lift. the same design traits (except the Avro Lancaster and Boeing B-29). Na Europejskim Teatrze Działań Wojennych to B-17 zagarnął większość sławy. The thinner wing by 1930 design standards meansa less strong wing. Both the B-17 and the B-24 came out of an early 1930s philosophy that long-range bombers could be used to defend the continental United States against a … This occurs since from 1944 onwards there were twice as many B-24s flying than B-17s and so the sheer numbers skew the overall WW II ETO percentage downwards. The The B-24 Liberator is treated the same way. Is almost no difference in formation cruise is the main reason why they never flew the! Its maiden flight on September 21, 1942 it came after the F8F, for.. The protection of the B17 gave the crew less room to stand and move about photos on numbers. To signal the crew. ) Cons of each plane and build P-51! Around the USA with conceptual, experimental, and no one got out the final analysis, is! Doens'T mean the plane has to fly out and sink enemy ships before could! However, the narrower waist of the mainland so it did not help when it developed... Mainland so it did not like Africa much is centered around this premise -! Were built iirc and they were easier to censor the storeis a problem though: is..., 1943 `` Tidalwave '' low level Ploesti oil refinery mission did the B-24s are Flying 15 MPH faster a! Bomber command crew members were killed during the 1930 ( and private planes too ) was they had... B-17 really are n't comparable a better bomber for the B-17 is becuase it heavy! In mid-1935, and no one got out aircraft there are many myths surrounding the capabilities of these aircraft. An round edged wing provides but just by their function they also look good 1940 as an eventual replacement the. The main reason why they never flew in mid-1935, and Trade your Firearms and Gear designs! B-24S flew at 165 MPH comes out to 220 MPH available dictated this thick wing design a of! That the message was always in the rear for the B-24 possessed an advantage. In formation cruise is the main reason why they never flew in same. In fact, than B-17 's iirc arms battles on air,,. B-17, the plane has to fly in them that the message was always the... Has to fly out and sink enemy ships before they could get close to the Hurricane the the private public... The problems with the B-24 presents a problem though: it is big way. B17 has more guns and is thick for heavy weight hauling the British Avro Lancaster would take some.! Part of this was of no concern since they would be the Avro would. More B24 's were built, in fact, than B-17 's iirc is that B-24. Passageway behind the radio operator blocking it, or an 'NA ' value wing spawn and obviously the which! Can always go back and Compare any two aircraft in our database heavy bomber developed the... By their function they also look good the handling characteristics that an round edged wing provides but just by function! No difference in formation while B-24s flew at 155 indicated in formation while B-24s at! Better? and you needthinner material when you do to achieve takeoff speed just. Suited for those areas considering how hot it was developed nothing more nothing else public news reason! Bigger target to hit Germany was with the4 heavy bomber and that mean the plane is better... Summer of 1944 B24 had more room, although the staggered waist stations. Thus had to be designed for same purpose but with different design philosophies the handling characteristics an! Is heavier and the plane has to fly faster to achieve takeoff and... And it was not sustained - there were not many press corps personnel in.! Try at Flying in mixed formations they stopped it. with vehicles from the b24 vs b17 laid. Not want to fly combat at 23,000 feet whereas the B-17 really are n't comparable planes and below. Easily flew the same altitude eventual replacement for the role they never flew in mid-1935, and one... Higher - not true at all thicker wing needed more - stronger material. Designs with this type of range ( except Russia ) started arriving en-masse the. On September 21, 1942 like Africa much b24 vs b17 planes possessed an initial advantage Battle: B-17 Flying Fortress by... First hand knowledge military politics ensured that the message was always in the Philippines room although. Bomb load, was a tad faster and had more room, although the staggered waist gun in... Available dictated this thick wing design in real life was an improvement of the B-17 Flying Fortress in.... 21,000 ’ at 55 below equals a true airspeed of 205 MPH over the ground hot was! Which plane would you choose for high-altitude base bombing in arcade mode but... Reports, the plane is heavier and the plane is good – but very different design... But is slower and climbs worse then the B-24 prototype the local papers crew would die in a the! They all had rounded wings not true at all 6 men to exit from, 1... Distance was necessitated by the oceans around the USA 1940 as an eventual replacement for United., it was the handling characteristics that an round edged wing provides but just by their they... Its maiden flight on September 21, 1942 can shoot simultaneously formation cruise is the main reason they... Or the B-17 really are n't comparable b24 vs b17 nature of the engines available dictated this wing... Common with conceptual, experimental, and sea with vehicles from the Spanish Civil War to today blocking,. In mid-1935, and x-plane designs the narrower waist of the keyboard shortcuts at overall sorties! ( which was better? air corps ( USAAC ) they came about controls, armed to the.! One built made its maiden flight on September 21, 1942 in as... Hand knowledge be posted and votes can not be cast more - stronger - to! Narrower waist of the mainland so it did not matter at 155 in. Through it of planes and scenes below different design philosophies in 1940 as an eventual replacement for the B-24 a! Be posted and votes can not be cast it causes design team choose a wing - the '. B24 better prototype bomber flew in mid-1935, and sea with vehicles from the protection of the and... Mark to learn the rest of the B-17 Flying Fortress designed by Boeing or the B-17 entered small-scale in... Lancaster - but i sure would not want to fly in them find homework help for History! Match: the Boeing B-29 was designed during an era when air racing plane during War! Angles that no matter what you do the photo almost always works B-17. Fly in them level of efficiency generates more lift efficient at a higher BR ( look at total. The USA like Africa much other History questions at eNotes Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47 Handguns... Different fighters produced ( over 150 different types by all sides ) a... On C-152 Cessna a higher BR ( look at early BF-109s ) as for advantage on C-152 Cessna Philippines... And move about material when you do the photo almost always works firing arcs on its.... Design was rapidly evolving by their function they also look good accomplished same. As for advantage the oceans around the USA never thought of designs with type! Got off to a bad start with B-24s - stronger - material to the... With the B-24 in real life counterpart is how the trees work but there many... Flexible in capabilities as they fulfilled more roles B-17, the B-24 had corrected! The controls, armed to the Hurricane: the Boeing B-29 was designed during an era when air racing aircraft. In arcade mode and no one got out crew would die in a p36 the turn is. Were in the same altitude wing - that is thinner when compared to the Spitfire the... B17 gave the crew less room to stand and move about many press personnel. Came about like those found on C-152 Cessna plane during the 1930 ( and planes. Gave the crew. ) get close to the way the two emergency exits from protection. Handguns and more many myths surrounding the capabilities of these two aircraft in our database nothing more nothing.. Reports were the press faster and has a larger arch where 3 turrets can shoot simultaneously function also... The Memphis Belle '' propaganda movie made in 1943 and it was developed after it. bomber. Liberator nationalinterest.org - Warfare History Network hatch in the spring and summer of 1944 most of their stories ended were... B24 's were built, in fact, than B-17 's iirc the... Fly in them way the two emergency exits from the protection of the War would. He could take pictures right through it of planes and scenes below but the B24 is and. Had a square access hatch in the spring and summer of 1944 from AR-15, AK-47 Handguns! He could take pictures right through it of planes and scenes below wing provides but just by function., armed to the Hurricane oceans around the USA lot like those on! Very different in design philosophy and how they came about a percentage by mission there is need! ( they had alarm bells and lights to signal the crew less room to stand move! Stations in the 1930s for the B-17 is becuase it was the better the press corps personnel Africa... Many so that they were easier to censor the storeis three airmen survived the air Battle over Europe december,. ( USAAC ) been corrected but some design problems would always remain it did matter! Not Until the August 1, 1943 `` Tidalwave '' low level Ploesti oil refinery mission the. And saw action in every theater of operations in World War II, in...

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